You poor UK people...

**melfice** · September 17th, 2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Smelly Cat:
I have the solution!
Let's have sex WHILE playing games at the same time. Then everybody will be happy and we can move to the next topic [img]smile.gif[/img]

That's it! i agree! ^^ [img]tongue.gif[/img]

**mrwiseman** · September 17th, 2003, 04:53 PM

IRT SC: For example, alcohol kills your neurons in the proportion it has been drunk. If you drink really a lot, you'll get noticeably stupider. If you drink only one day, the damage will not be noticeable due to the amount of neurons we have and the way our brain works (reassigning tasks to nearby neurons), but it will exist nonetheless.

As for posting opinions: The problem is you can't really separate opinion and promotion. Every time you express your opinion, you do so to show it to others, and 99% of people also expect it to have some influence on others. Look at TV ads. Many of them have somebody saying "I think this is da best". Is it expressing their opinions, or advertising? The rules of the board are against promoting drugs in any way, and saying "Drugs are good" IS promoting them. That rule exists for three reasons:

1. Most drugs are illegal in most countries. I don't want my ass handed over to the authorities for promoting illegal substances and/or activities. (You can see warez is forbidden as well.)

2. I don't want the board to be a bad influence for everyone. Drugs are bad, and promoting drugs is a bad influence.

3. I hate them, and I don't think the majority of the people here like them either. Only 1-2 people really complained on the no drugs rule, so it's not even that people really doesn't want it.

**SmellyCat** · September 17th, 2003, 06:00 PM

IRT SC: For example, alcohol kills your neurons in the proportion it has been drunk. If you drink really a lot, you'll get noticeably stupider. If you drink only one day, the damage will not be noticeable due to the amount of neurons we have and the way our brain works (reassigning tasks to nearby neurons), but it will exist nonetheless.

But this countered again by the healing effect alcohol (and in particular wine) have on the blood circulation. Making it prevent all kinds of heart and brain attacks (trombose?).

You only look at the negative sides.

I'm not even going to start to explain why it is not advertisement since you very well know yourself that it is not.

**Xellos** · September 17th, 2003, 06:58 PM

There are no positive sides... besides feeling good.

**SmellyCat** · September 17th, 2003, 08:46 PM

There are no positive sides... besides feeling good.

Oh come on! You are not even using an argument.
Show me some evidence to support your theory that a small amount of any alcohol has no positive sides.

Wine and Heart Disease
http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu/cuttin...winehealth.htm

**Xellos** · September 17th, 2003, 08:48 PM

Oh, we're talkigna bout alchohol only? I thought you were speaking of drugs and alchohol in general >_<

Yeah, drinking wine and such is fine in moderation, until you start abusing it, or gettidg drunk, period.

**One Classy Bloke** · September 17th, 2003, 09:29 PM

IRT Wiseman:
"Then if you or I die, who'll give a damn for us;"

Our friends and families. I bet you don't know the name of a single victim of Hitler or 11th Sept. When you hear about a death, you should at least give them a passing pray for their souls to find peace. For families and friends, it will last longer. However, most of the US people are acting like friends and families of those who died, so they consiser 11th Sept as the world's worst act of terrorism. The US government has milked this feeling of the US for their own gain. This war against Terrorism is your real propaganda, for the purpose of creating new trading partners for the US, so they can become richer. Maybe thats not a bad thing, the problem is, there are plenty of other countries that would like to be trading partners wtih the US.

"Escape? That's coward. It's not gonna solve anything. It will only give you more trouble than you already had. It's a false good."

Indeed, it is coward. But how can it cause the suicider trouble, they will be dead. Unless you beleive in Hell, the troubles are for those left behind.

"WTF, I didn't have sex while driving, and for every couple who does it,"

Sorry, i didn't mean you, but i'm certain that someone in this world has had sex while driving a car (I think i saw a porn site about it).

"High dose = high damage
Low dose = low damage
Very low dose = very low damage
(Dose = damage)"

The main reason Cannabis has long term effects is because it's smoked with Tobacco, and we know the effects of that. I didn't get any damage because i ate a bit of pure cannabis mixed into a small cake. I didn't enjoy my high. I found it really annoying as i couldn't think straight. But i didn't get damaged one bit. Cannabis grows as a herb. It's kinda the human version of Catnip. Catnip is a drug to cats, yet it has no bad effects to them.

There is one bad long term effect of extended use of Cannabis. It may cause mania. And thats it.

"Medicine are things like Arnica. Good drugs (which have a bad side) are things like Asprin. And bad drugs (which can have a good side) are things like heroin.

You know what I meant."

But did you know what i meant? Medicine should need a very high dose in order to harm, Arnica (which prevents brusing and swelling from injuries) for example. Asprin, if ODed can kill. That can't be a medicine.

"If I had to insult you for every stupid point you make about drugs, I'd run out of English slang words."

And if i had to insult you for everytime you decide to misunderstand my points, i'd run out of french words.

(Booyah! The art of insulting! ^_^ That was for pure fun you know.)

"I said that to show an analogy of your "sex is worse than drugs" nonsense."

I'm sure victims of sex trauma would not consider that nonsense.

"Do you think I'm some kind of rapist psycho? That does NOT happen (to normal people),"

Not at all (thats nearly impossible). Besides, even the most normal of us can turn out to be a rapist psycho. And the other way round. I somehow managed to talk to a child molsester the other day. I posed the question, "Don't you think that it's immoral?". He didn't reply. Maybe he had some logic supressed in his mind, or maybe i gave him some.

"I don't remember giving him moderator powers or asking him to."

I didn't suggest that you two planned the flames. But it seems like you don't mind him flaming me.

"But lenient or not, I'm fair with everyone, and if I'm letting you border the rules, I'm letting Xellos."

Problem is, no matter how lenient you're being, Xellos has flamed me. And flames are a direct violation of your rules. You've clearly said that i've only bordered rule violations.

"Be careful and they are both great experiences."
"And can be good."
I consider that drug propaganda.
"

I consider drugs propaganda to be:

"Drugs have no problems, will make you more popular and will improve your studies."

In my "propaganda", i use the words, "Be careful" and "can". I know the dangers, and i don't really promote drugs. As i've said, i don't like drugs. But i feel they are something people should be able to experience, if they want to. Please people, just don't get hooked.

" At times like this, I really wish I wasn't the moderator, so you wouldn't say I'm abusing my powers in the discussion. "

There is a way not to be accused of abusing your powers. Don't use them as threats.

"Why do you think I am being lenient and not deleting posts? Think about it."

Because i've only bordered the rules?

IRT Xel:
"don't tell me that supporting drugs isn't stupid"

Supporting drugs is stupid. Defending drugs is not stupid, and thats what i've been doing the whole time. Except about tobacco. I was really mistaken about that. I really don't like hard drugs one bit. I don't mind cannabis at all, and thats the only drug i have in mind when i defend drugs.

"The masturbation topic."

Everything i said in that topic is true fact. The reason you think like this: "Yes, jacking off is addicting [/sarcasm]", is because you don't listen to the idea that there is a gene in some people's DNA that causes them to have the ability to become addicted to jacking off.

"This."

You said yourself that this was meant to be a fun topic.

"the only serious discussion topics we've had for awhile, right?"

Lets see, we've also had my scientist topic, the "blame video games" topic, and the Death Penalty topic. I'm sure there are others too.

"I do look from your viewpoints, they just don't make sense."

You realise that your last comment proved to me that you don't. You didn't bother to look up all the serious topics we've had in the past two weeks.

"Bull Fucking Shit. You fucking promoted them earlier in your post"

Defense! *in American football fan voice* I've explained before.

"just admit it, you like to stir up trouble"

Please direct your browser to the first page in this topic, and read your posts. I seemed to noticed that the later posts seem to trying to stir trouble themselves.

However, i have enjoyed arguing with Wiseman. That is, until he starts to threaten to delete my posts. But i don't start arguments on purpose, they just happen.

"I was born because of a rape, but you don't see me thinking that sex is what causes it. If anything does, it's lack of sex,"

I remember alright. I tried not to mention it in case i'd offend you. It may be a lack of sex, but he forced to get sex. Thats the bad side. The good side is you (i know it's corny, but it's true).

"I'm out of this topic, and any future argument with you, you're not even worth my time anymore."

I don't even think you were a part of this argument. You were just some guy at the sidelines tossing random and pointless insults. You wasted your own time as you didn't achieve anything. At least other posters had some thing smart to say.

IRT SC:
"Moderation is the key!"

At last. Someone who understands my message.

"And saying that drugs are not that bad, or had a good experience with them, is not the same as promoting them."

Thank you. ^_^

"The same goes when I say that I think drugs should be controlled and legal."

Thats a good idea. If the government has control, they can prevent drugs dealers from adding stuff to make more money for less, eg powered glass in cocaine (very nasty). It will still get a lot of opposition.

IRT Wiseman (2):
"and saying "Drugs are good" IS promoting them."

Thats right, but remember that i've only said that "Drugs can be good".

" I don't want my ass handed over to the authorities for promoting illegal substances and/or activities"

First, no one has promoted drugs. You've only considered me to be promoting drugs.

Second, not many countries have laws against the promotion of drugs, only the use and dealing of drugs.

"I don't want the board to be a bad influence for everyone. Drugs are bad, and promoting drugs is a bad influence."

Once again, no drugs promotion exists outside your beliefs.

"I hate them, and I don't think the majority of the people here like them either. Only 1-2 people really complained on the no drugs rule, so it's not even that people really doesn't want it. "

I don't recall anyone complaining against the no drugs rule. Besides, i don't really care if you have that rule or not. It doesn't effect me until you think i've promoted drugs.

IRT SC (2): *Agrees with most things said*

btw, don't get too deeply involved in this argument. While you know what your talking about, i don't want you to suffer the wrath of Wiseman (j/k).

IRT Xel (2):
"There are no positive sides... besides feeling good."

And the possible health benefits that comes with most drugs. You seem soo stuck on the idea that drugs are bad that you and Wiseman are refusing to even listen to the chance that there might be something good for you in short or even long term.

My message all along, be it about drugs, sex, food, suicide or muslims, is that there is a good and bad side to everything. Also, not everything is black and white in levels of evil/bad. There are a lot of shades of grey out there. Try to see them.

(Holy shit?! This post took me two hours!!)

**mrwiseman** · September 18th, 2003, 12:57 AM

IRT Xellos:

Oh, and in case you didn't know, I was born because of a rape, but you don't see me thinking that sex is what causes it. If anything does, it's lack of sex, and a mental problem with the committer of the rape.

Oops, I didn't know about this, I'm very sorry. If you feel offended in the very least for anything posted in this thread, just a PM and I'll wipe this whole thread out.

----

IRT SC:

But this countered again by the healing effect alcohol (and in particular wine) have on the blood circulation. Making it prevent all kinds of heart and brain attacks (trombose?).

You can take much better substances which do the same effect but do not have the other effects of alcohol like making you temporarily very stupid and not-yourself and permanently stupider with time.

You only look at the negative sides.

Because they outweight the positive sides by much.

I'm not even going to start to explain why it is not advertisement since you very well know yourself that it is not.

Any "Drugs are good" sentence is promotion/recommendation/encouragement of drugs.

----

IRT OCB:

When you hear about a death, you should at least give them a passing pray for their souls to find peace.

That's if you are a believer. I wouldn't believe in my own soul. When somebody dies, I just show my pain and respect for the person, and make sure his or her memory stays alive within me.

"WTF, I didn't have sex while driving, and for every couple who does it,"

Sorry, i didn't mean you, but i'm certain that someone in this world has had sex while driving a car (I think i saw a porn site about it).

Of course some do that, but sex isn't any bad because of this, the same as pools are not bad because people drowned in them.

WRT cannabis, I've heard it's like a bomb for the nervous system, and that's not the only bad thing it has. And it's not only because of tobacco, I saw on TV news that they discovered that cannabis was bad in itself.

(Booyah! The art of insulting! ^_^ That was for pure fun you know.)

Fun or not, please refrain from doing it at the Granaboard. Not only it's against the rules, but it ruins an otherwise interesting discussion.

"I said that to show an analogy of your "sex is worse than drugs" nonsense."

I'm sure victims of sex trauma would not consider that nonsense.

It IS nonsense, even if you won't admit it. As I said, people drowned in pools, but are pools worse than drugs because of that? Yeah, I'm sure the people who nearly drowned, or the familiars of those who drowned, may have something against pools, but there's no way they could be worse than drugs, which are inherently bad. Same for sex.

"Do you think I'm some kind of rapist psycho? That does NOT happen (to normal people),"

Not at all (thats nearly impossible). Besides, even the most normal of us can turn out to be a rapist psycho. And the other way round. I somehow managed to talk to a child molsester the other day. I posed the question, "Don't you think that it's immoral?". He didn't reply. Maybe he had some logic supressed in his mind, or maybe i gave him some.

Don't bother talking to him, just beat the fuck out of him.

WRT Xellos:

But it seems like you don't mind him flaming me.

I'm either:

Lenient -> Allowing minor drug propaganda and insults from you and minor flaming from Xellos
Harsh -> Deleting the whole thing

I already explained this thrice. I also told you that I'm letting minor violations pass from both of you so I don't have to use my moderator powers, but if you want me to be the other way, you only have to PM me, and I'll take actions against any GR&R violations in this thread.

"But lenient or not, I'm fair with everyone, and if I'm letting you border the rules, I'm letting Xellos."

Problem is, no matter how lenient you're being, Xellos has flamed me. And flames are a direct violation of your rules. You've clearly said that i've only bordered rule violations.

Problem is, if I'm lenient with your minor drugs rule violations, I'm lenient with Xellos' minor flame rule violations as well. Both are minor violations, and I'll leave both or delete both.

In my "propaganda", i use the words, "Be careful" and "can". I know the dangers, and i don't really promote drugs. As i've said, i don't like drugs. But i feel they are something people should be able to experience, if they want to. Please people, just don't get hooked.

And some car advertisements say "drive safely" too. I don't think anybody has to try that crap, and if you want to recommend your friends to play with fire, do it outside the Granaboard.

There is a way not to be accused of abusing your powers. Don't use them as threats.

Wiseman-the user did not use them.
Wiseman-the mod was doing his work.
Message from Wiseman-the mod: Sorry for doing my work.

Because i've only bordered the rules?

I have deleted other posts in other threads which bordered just as much as yours and Xellos'. The reason why I'm being lenient here is so you can't say I'm abusing my moderator powers by deleting the posts from the other side of the discussion.

Supporting drugs is stupid. Defending drugs is not stupid,

Defending is somewhat supporting, and defending something so bad is certainly as Xellos' said.

there is a gene in some people's DNA that causes them to have the ability to become addicted to jacking off.

Is there a real, serious, conclusive scientific study about it? And if so, which kind of addiction is it, and which strength does it have?

However, i have enjoyed arguing with Wiseman. That is, until he starts to threaten to delete my posts.

And I have enjoyed arguing with you. That is, until you started violating the Granaboard Rules & Regulations.

"Moderation is the key!"

At last. Someone who understands my message.

[j/k] Yeah, moderation might be the key after all. Now where was that delete button... [/j/k]

"And saying that drugs are not that bad, or had a good experience with them, is not the same as promoting them."

Thank you. ^_^

I as a mod consider that to be "encouragement of drug consumption", which is explicitly forbidden in the GR&R.

"The same goes when I say that I think drugs should be controlled and legal."

Thats a good idea. If the government has control, they can prevent drugs dealers from adding stuff to make more money for less, eg powered glass in cocaine (very nasty). It will still get a lot of opposition.

That's a bad idea. I like the people too much, even those foolish enough to do drugs, to make it easier for them to hurt themselves. Besides, other people would make money at the expense of others' health, which is highly immoral. Not to mention the social security budget drugs waste. And if you're going to say if drugs were legal fewer people would take them, think on tobacco.

"and saying "Drugs are good" IS promoting them."

Thats right, but remember that i've only said that "Drugs can be good".

That's why I said it was a minor violation/bordering violation, and why I, when in lenient mode, let it pass.

Second, not many countries have laws against the promotion of drugs, only the use and dealing of drugs.

I don't want to assume that risk.

Once again, no drugs promotion exists outside your beliefs.

But, like it or not, I am in charge of moderating this message board; I think promotion did happen, and asking other people revealed I'm not alone, so I think it's fairly reasonable to assume it did happen.

And the possible health benefits that comes with most drugs.

Health benefits? My ass! Everyone who does/did drugs says this. But those benefits will only happen in the right dose, in the right moment, and when solving the right thing, as determined by a highly qualified doctor, not in a party when you feel like getting high because it's so cool and oh yeah, did I say it's so cool?

[ September 17, 2003 10:08 PM: Message edited by: -Wiseman- ]